Published on 12/05/2016
DEBT
It's not just a mnemonic anymore.
By Carsten Haese, James Bennett, Callum Milne, and Nathan Long
This Article from: Callum Milne
Cranial Translation
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Note: This article is over two years old. Information in this article may be out of date due to subsequent Oracle and/or rules changes. Proceed with caution.
I could have sworn those
numbers were right...
numbers were right...
So, funny thing about those lottery numbers I told you about last time...it turns out that seeing the future is a bit harder than I originally thought, which is a bit of a problem, because in anticipation of cashing in I may have made a few purchases that might, when seen in retrospect, have been a touch hasty. And I may have made some promises to some less-than-savoury people in order to obtain the ready cash to make those purchases.
On a completely unrelated note, for the first time ever, this article's being dictated to Moko via a prepaid disposable cell phone from an undisclosed location, where hopefully nobody will ever find me! For...reasons. Give me a minute and I'm sure I'll be able to think of some, but while you're doing that you should also give me some rules questions! You can send them to us via email at moko@cranialinsertion.com or via Twitter @CranialTweet, and you'll not only get an answer, but possibly also see your question appear in a future article.
Now this phone only has a limited number of minutes, so I should get right down to business: answering your rules questions!
Q: If you flicker Faerie Artisans with Essence Flux, will you be able to keep the creature token last made with it and start making new ones?
A: Yes. Faerie Artisans token-making ability keeps track of the tokens created by that specific instance of Faerie Artisans and will only exile those tokens, not other tokens created by other Artisans, and as far as the game's concerned, the Faerie Artisans that got exiled by Essence Flux is a different creature than the one that was put onto the battlefield a moment later.
Since the Artisans that created the token you have already no longer exists, that token will stick around indefinitely—the brand-new Artisans will start making brand-new tokens for itself.
Q: Does Boros Reckoner alone give 3 or 6 devotion to Iroas, God of Victory?
A: Just 3. Devotion to multiple colors doesn't count your devotion to each color separately and then add those numbers together. Instead, it works by counting the number of distinct mana symbols that are any of the relevant colors, and Boros Reckoner only has three colored mana symbols in its mana cost.
Q: How does Reaper King work with Urza's Incubator if you name Scarecrow? What does it reduce specifically about its casting cost?
A: When you're casting a spell with hybrid mana symbols in its mana cost you decide which half of each of those hybrid symbols you're going to pay before determining how other effects that modify the cost will apply, so whether and what the Incubator reduces depends on how you decide to pay for Reaper King.
For example, if you have no black mana but all the other colors, you might decide to pay
, and the Incubator would then reduce that to . If you had only white mana and none of the other colors, you'd want to pay 
, which the Incubator would reduce to 
. And if you had access to all five colors, you could choose to pay 
, in which case the Incubator wouldn't reduce anything at all because it can only reduce generic costs.Q: Do players have a chance to play instants in between creatures dying in combat?
A: All normal (ie, non-first strike) combat damage is dealt at the same time, and state-based actions (which are what cause creatures that have been dealt lethal damage to go to the graveyard) aren't performed individually, one at a time—instead, the game looks for all of the necessary state-based actions that need to be taken, and then performs all of them at once.
This means that all the creatures that have been dealt lethal damage at the same time will also go to the graveyard at the same time—there's no time in between where some have died and others haven't.
I can pay you back, I swear!
A: Unfortunately for you, no. Ghostly Prison adds a mana cost to the action of declaring attackers, and that cost needs to be paid as you declare attackers. Since mana empties from your mana pool every time you move from one step of the turn to the next, any mana that's produced in your main phase will have disappeared by the time you get to the declare attackers step.
Q: ...What if I flashed in the Burning-Tree Emissary with Aether Vial—could I pay for Ghostly Prison with it then?
A: Again, no, but for a slightly different reason this time! Declaring attackers is done in the declare attackers step of combat, so because of how mana empties between each step as just described, in order for you to pay for Ghostly Prison with Burning-Tree Emissary's mana you'd need to put out the Emissary during that step, but still before you declare attackers.
...Which isn't possible, because declaring attackers is the very first thing that happens in the Declare Attackers step, before anybody has any chance to do anything else. Because you're being asked to pay mana, the game gives you special permission to use mana abilities (eg, tapping lands) to produce the necessary mana for payment, but using Aether Vial definitely isn't a mana ability. So there's never a time when you can bring in the Emissary and use it to pay for the Prison.
Q: If I cast Ruinous Path for its Awaken cost and put the counters on Shambling Vent, then activate the Vent, how big is it?
A: Both Awaken and the Vent's animation effect try to set the Vent's power and toughness to specific numbers, so the most recent such effect overwrites the other, then the Vent's +1/+1 counters are applied over top of that. This means that when you use the Vent's ability, it will turn into a 6/7, and will remain so until the end of the turn when the Vent's animation effect ends and it will revert back to being a 4/4.
Q: If I have a Renegade Krasis in play and I play a Kalonian Hydra, Renegade Krasis will evolve. Will the Hydra get the extra +1/+1 counter from Renegade Krasis?
A: Indeed it will. Your Krasis' evolve ability triggers when a creature with higher power or toughness enters the battlefield under your control, so in order for it to trigger at all, the Hydra must have entered the battlefield. And since it's already entered the battlefield, it will therefore be around when the Krasis' other ability looks around for other creatures you control to put +1/+1 counters on.
Q: What would happen if your proliferate the slight counters on Chromatic Armor? Would you get to choose a new color?
A: Nope. Nothing much happens, except that by increasing the number of counters you've made it more expensive to choose a new color next time.
The thing that changes the color Chromatic Armor protects against is the part of the ability that instructs you to choose a new color—simply adding slight counters to Chromatic Armor doesn't inherently do anything to affect what color it protects against.
More generally, the only counters that inherently do anything to affect the permanent they're on are +1/+1 counters and other similar P/T-modifying counters. Named counters by themselves don't inherently do anything at all—instead, some other ability will give those counters meaning in some way.
Q: If I have an Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder, what happens when I cast a big creature spell and get seven Thrull tokens if Endrek Sahr has an Assault Suit on?
A: Unless someone finds a way to immediately remove Endrek Sahr, the Assault Suit, or enough Thrulls so that you only control six or fewer, the game's going to be a draw.
Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder's triggered "too many Thrulls!" ability is what's known as a state trigger, which means that it's constantly checking to see if the game state matches a particular condition. When it sees that the game state matches that condition, it immediately triggers. And while it doesn't re-trigger as long as that trigger's on the stack, once it's gone, if the game state still matches the trigger condition, it will immediately re-trigger.
What this means is that Endrek Sahr is going to see that you control too many Thrulls, and its ability will trigger. That ability will resolve and try to force you to sacrifice Endrek, but won't be able to because of the Assault Suit, so the ability will do nothing, finish resolving, and leave the stack...only to immediately trigger again because you still control Endrek and still have too many Thrulls. Left to itself, the ability would continue forever this way, resolving and doing nothing before immediately retriggering over and over forever.
Since the game's caught in an endless loop, it ends in a draw unless you or your opponent can manage to break the loop somehow, either by removing Endrek, the Suit, or enough Thrulls that you no longer control seven or more.
Q: Can I tap my Key to the City just because I want to untap it during my untap step and pay
to draw a card?A: Definitely not. Magic's game rules are permissive—they lay out what it's possible for you to do, and if the rules don't say that you can do something, you can't.
You can't decide to arbitrarily tap your Key just because it would happen to benefit you for the same reason you can't arbitrarily create a hundred creature tokens or gain a billion life—there's nothing that says you can do that, so you can't.
Q: If I gain control of my opponent's Fairgrounds Warden with a Shrewd Negotiation, what happens to the thing it exiled, since it's not something "an opponent controls" any more?
A: Nothing much—it stays exactly where it is in exile, and will remain there until the Warden leaves the battlefield.
Fairgrounds Warden (and similar effects) don't continually re-check to make sure that the thing they exile continues to retain the qualities that allowed them to exile it—they just exile it for the specified duration and forget about it entirely. The only thing that will allow your creature to come back is the Warden leaving the battlefield.
Q: If I block a Hungry Spriggan with my Serene Master, how big are they each? My opponent said that the Master's a 4/2, and that makes sense, but they also said their Spriggan was a 3/4. Shouldn't it be a 0/4?
A: No, your opponent's actually correct. When Serene Master tells you to exchange its power and the power of the creature it's blocking, what it means is "set my power to the other creature's current power, and vice versa", so it creates an effect that says "Serene Master's power is 4, and Hungry Spriggan's power is 0".
But what Serene Master didn't count on is that Hungry Spriggan's own ability—the one that gave it +3/+3 when it attacked—is still around and will still apply over top of the power-setting effect the Master created. So the Spriggan's power ends up being 0 + 3. Hence, it's a 3/4.
I may have gotten in a bit too deep here...
A: Unfortunately for you, no. A planeswalker can only have one of its loyalty abilities activated once per turn, and it doesn't matter which player did the activating. Since your opponent has already activated that planeswalker this turn, you won't be able to do so yourself.
Q: I have Authority of the Consuls on the battlefield and my opponent attacks with Hanweir Garrison—do the tokens come in still attacking or are they just tapped?
A: They're still attacking. Authority of the Consuls says that your opponent's creatures enter the battlefield tapped, but it doesn't say anything about preventing them from being attacking, so it doesn't do that. And since the tokens Hanweir Garrison creates were already going to be entering the battlefield tapped anyways, the Authority ends up not really affecting much of anything here, beyond giving you a bit of extra life.
Q: I crew a Smuggler's Copter and then copy it with Quicksilver Gargantuan. I know I get an unanimated Copter, but what happens if I crew it? How big is my Quicksilver Copter?
A: Pretty darn big—it'll be a 7/7. Your Gargantu-Copter doesn't copy the power and toughness printed on the original Copter, instead just retaining the value it already has (7/7). While that printed value doesn't mean anything as long as it's not a creature (and therefore doesn't have either power or toughness), as soon as its crew ability resolves and animates it, the printed power and toughness once again have meaning, and apply.
Q: My opponent has Fallen Angel and a Lone Wolf of the Natterknolls, with only three cards left in her library, and I have two instants in my hand on her turn. Can I cast both of them to make her deck herself, or will she be able to sacrifice her Wolf in response before I can cast both?
A: Luckily for you, you can indeed force your opponent to deck herself in this scenario, if she gives you a chance to do anything at all. It's your opponent's turn, so she gets the first chance to do things, but if she doesn't suspect you're about to kill her and sacrifice her Wolf immediately, before giving you any chance to do anything, she's doomed.
When a player casts a spell, that player is the first one to receive priority once they're finished the casting process. What this means is that you can cast as many instants as you want all before your opponent has any chance to do anything at all. This means that you can cast your first instant, which triggers your opponent's Wolf once, and then cast the second instant immediately, before you pass priority to your opponent and therefore before she has a chance to get rid of her Wolf by sacrificing it.
Q: If my opponent has a Bomat Courier and I cast Oblivion Sower do I get to take lands from the face-down exiled cards and put them onto the battlefield?
A: No, you don't. As far as the game's concerned, cards that are in exile face-down don't have any characteristics at all, so no matter what's under the Courier, there's no way your Sower can take anything from it, because nothing the Courier has exiled is a land card right now, no matter what it might be if it were face-up.
Q: If I control Fumiko the Lowblood and Propaganda in a multiplayer game, when an opponent "must attack", can they attack me and decline to pay for Propaganda and be done with it, or do they have to attack the other player if not paying?
A: If they're not paying—and it's legal for them to attack something else, that's what they're going to have to do. For each of your opponent's creatures, either:
- It attacks you, and your opponent pays the that Propaganda requires in order to allow it to do so.
- There's nothing other than you that the creature can possibly attack and your opponent doesn't pay the , so the creature's unable to attack at all.
- There's one or more other players or planeswalkers the creature can attack, so it's forced to attack one of those.
Q: If I Pithing Needle a Sylvan Library, can my opponent still draw extra cards?
A: Well, you can name Sylvan Library with Pithing Needle, but it won't do you a whole lot of good, because Sylvan Library doesn't have any activated abilities for Pithing Needle to stop.
Sylvan Library is a bit of a weird card in many ways, and one of those weird things is that its Fifth Edition printing was worded in a way that, to the modern Magic player, looks an awful lot like an activated ability. By which I mean it looks exactly like an activated ability, even though it isn't.
Cards like Sylvan Library are one of the biggest reasons why you should always double-check the Oracle text of older cards to make sure how they work rather than relying on their printed wording, especially cards printed before Sixth Edition.
Well, that's it from me for now, but be sure to come back next week, when Nathan will be back to answer more of your questions. Hopefully the next time you hear from me I'll have sorted out this whole big misunderstanding.
Wait, was that a knock at the door? But nobody should know where I am...
Sorry, folks, gotta run!
- Callum Milne
About the Author:
Callum Milne is a Level 2 judge from British Columbia, Canada. His home range is Vancouver Island, but he can be found in the wild throughout BC and also at GPs all along the west coast of North America.
Jamesborg99
Can you explain the Serene Master and Spriggan question in layers in an update maybe? Not the person who submitted it, but I'd very much like to know why that's the result.
#1
• Date: 2016-12-04 • Time: 22:22:04 •
Copied from the Comprehensive Rules:
\"613.1g Layer 7: Power- and/or toughness-changing effects are applied.
613.3 Within layer 7, apply effects in a series of sublayers in the order described below. Within each sublayer, apply effects in timestamp order. (See rule 613.6.) Note that dependency may alter the order in which effects are applied within a sublayer. (See rule 613.7.)
613.3a Layer 7a: Effects from characteristic-defining abilities that define power and/or toughness are applied. See rule 604.3.
613.3b Layer 7b: Effects that set power and/or toughness to a specific number or value are applied. Effects that refer to the base power and/or toughness of a creature apply in this layer.
613.3c Layer 7c: Effects that modify power and/or toughness (but don't set power and/or toughness to a specific number or value) are applied.
613.3d Layer 7d: Power and/or toughness changes from counters are applied. See rule 121, "Counters."
613.3e Layer 7e: Effects that switch a creature's power and toughness are applied. Such effects take the value of power and apply it to the creature's toughness, and take the value of toughness and apply it to the creature's power.\"
7a doesnt apply here because we dont have any CDAs to deal with.
7b: This is where the Serene Masters abilities are applied. The Master sets its power to the power of the creature it is blocking, and sets the attacking creatures power to the original power of the Master. Currently, the Master has 4 power, and the Spriggan has 0
7c: This is where Spriggans ability takes place. The Spriggan that had 0 power now has 3 power because of this.
7d and 7e also do not apply.
Therefore, once the Masters ability finishes resolving, it will be a 4/2, and the Spriggan will be 3/4
\"613.1g Layer 7: Power- and/or toughness-changing effects are applied.
613.3 Within layer 7, apply effects in a series of sublayers in the order described below. Within each sublayer, apply effects in timestamp order. (See rule 613.6.) Note that dependency may alter the order in which effects are applied within a sublayer. (See rule 613.7.)
613.3a Layer 7a: Effects from characteristic-defining abilities that define power and/or toughness are applied. See rule 604.3.
613.3b Layer 7b: Effects that set power and/or toughness to a specific number or value are applied. Effects that refer to the base power and/or toughness of a creature apply in this layer.
613.3c Layer 7c: Effects that modify power and/or toughness (but don't set power and/or toughness to a specific number or value) are applied.
613.3d Layer 7d: Power and/or toughness changes from counters are applied. See rule 121, "Counters."
613.3e Layer 7e: Effects that switch a creature's power and toughness are applied. Such effects take the value of power and apply it to the creature's toughness, and take the value of toughness and apply it to the creature's power.\"
7a doesnt apply here because we dont have any CDAs to deal with.
7b: This is where the Serene Masters abilities are applied. The Master sets its power to the power of the creature it is blocking, and sets the attacking creatures power to the original power of the Master. Currently, the Master has 4 power, and the Spriggan has 0
7c: This is where Spriggans ability takes place. The Spriggan that had 0 power now has 3 power because of this.
7d and 7e also do not apply.
Therefore, once the Masters ability finishes resolving, it will be a 4/2, and the Spriggan will be 3/4
#2
• Date: 2016-12-05 • Time: 00:25:23 •
"Currently, the Master has 4 power, and the Spriggan has 0" - Since the +3/+3 is in layer 7c, doesn't the Spriggan have power 1 before the Master's ability applies? Then we'd end up with a 1/2 Master and 3/4 Spriggan. The rulings on Gatherer agree with Cranial Insertion, but it honestly does seem to be mixing layers.
#4
• Date: 2016-12-13 • Time: 02:20:41 •
Rhadamanthus
An effect that uses a creature's power to do something has to use the final result of all the layer calculations. It doesn't use the base power (unless it specifically says so) or the power from some other intermediate layer step. At the time the Master's ability starts resolving, it has 0 power and the Spriggan has 4. Those are the values the ability will use to apply its P/T-setting effect.
#5
• Date: 2016-12-22 • Time: 09:54:06 •
